From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 3 17:17:06 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA05624 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:17:04 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA26406 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:21:09 -0600 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id RAA26353 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:21:02 -0600 Received: by mercury.colossus.net id PAA20274 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199804032313.PAA20274@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Mozilla To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu (PNG List) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I just ran a Win32 executable of Mozilla 5.0 compiled from public source and went to look at Willem's suite just to get a feel for what needs to be done. 16-bit sampled images are buggy. Alpha channels don't work. No gamma correction. Background chunk isn't happy. The "odd sizes" page makes it crash. Interlacing works well. Still doesn't support tag correctly. -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 3 17:37:30 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06394 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:37:29 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA09546 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:42:35 -0600 Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id RAA09506 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:42:30 -0600 Received: (qmail 32631 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1998 23:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (root@208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1998 23:37:32 -0000 Received: from ultraann (solicited-mailing.href.com [208.201.252.123]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28809 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:34:57 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980403153537.03029b40@mail.sonic.net> X-Sender: ann@mail.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 15:35:37 -0800 To: PNG List From: Ann Lynnworth Subject: Re: Mozilla In-Reply-To: <199804032313.PAA20274@mercury.colossus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Is it supposed to support transparency? And 3 cheers for working on this? Ann At 03:13 PM 4/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >I just ran a Win32 executable of Mozilla 5.0 compiled >from public source and went to look at Willem's suite >just to get a feel for what needs to be done. > >16-bit sampled images are buggy. Alpha channels don't >work. No gamma correction. Background chunk isn't happy. >The "odd sizes" page makes it crash. Interlacing works >well. Still doesn't support tag correctly. > >-- >Lee Daniel Crocker >"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, >are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified >for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC > >-- >Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu > > -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 4 01:59:43 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23217 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:59:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id CAA26399 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 02:02:57 -0600 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id CAA26350 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 02:02:51 -0600 Received: by mercury.colossus.net id XAA14980 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:55:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199804040755.XAA14980@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Re: Mozilla To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:55:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980403153537.03029b40@mail.sonic.net> from "Ann Lynnworth" at Apr 3, 98 03:35:37 pm Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Is it supposed to support transparency? It's /supposed/ to support everything.:) Chroma-key style transparency basically worked, but it seemed to have some odd interactions with the background chunk. -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 4 17:48:59 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA25311 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:48:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA02417 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:49:43 -0600 Received: from shell.wco.com (shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id RAA02372; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:49:38 -0600 Received: (from png@localhost) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) id PAA04869; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199804042341.PAA04869@shell.wco.com> To: png-implement@dworkin.wustl.edu, png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Mozilla & PNG support Cc: fur@netscape.com, jg@netscape.com, mjudge@netscape.com, pnunn@netscape.com, vidur@netscape.com From: Greg Roelofs Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Lee wrote (on png-list; redirected to png-implement, I hope): > I just ran a Win32 executable of Mozilla 5.0 compiled > from public source and went to look at Willem's suite > just to get a feel for what needs to be done. Did you compile it, or is it someone else's binary? > 16-bit sampled images are buggy. Alpha channels don't > work. No gamma correction. Background chunk isn't happy. > The "odd sizes" page makes it crash. Interlacing works > well. Still doesn't support tag correctly. I finally got the Linux one to compile after upgrading various development tools and adding a small XmNlist patch to one of the ComboBox.c files. True alpha doesn't work, I agree, but at least the alpha channel is con- verted into a reasonable binary-transparency approximation (unlike MSIE). The progressive display is buggy, but the final images are correct--with the exception of the old 256-transparency libpng bug. It appears that full alpha support is underway, but there's no documentation on where it's headed (beyond a brief reference to resizing the alpha mask). There's also no documentation on what the Image Conversion Library does, but it appears to be write-only and therefore is not particularly interes- ting right now. (It's also from libpng 0.89.) The real PNG code lives in modules/libimg/png and is based on libpng 0.95b, I think (I don't have 0.95 anymore, but the dates match 0.95b). It differs from 0.95b in rela- tively trivial ways, but at least some of the differences look like good coding decisions that should be folded back into 1.0.2 if they're not there already (for example, memset on certain buffers). Others look suspicious... Anyway, I'll poke around some more in a while and report back if and when I've made some progress. Please direct replies to png-implement only. Greg -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sun Apr 5 03:37:50 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA13353 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id DAA08371 for png-list-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:43:08 -0500 Received: from www10.w3.org (www10.w3.org [18.23.0.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id DAA08315 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:43:02 -0500 Received: from sparky.netmania.co.uk ([195.13.69.6]) by www10.w3.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04652 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:35:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: www10.w3.org: Host [195.13.69.6] claimed to be sparky.netmania.co.uk Received: from default (bay1-393.la.ziplink.net [208.196.122.154]) by sparky.netmania.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02403; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:31:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:31:35 +0100 (BST) From: 88l7l7 <88l7l7@msn.com> To: Received: from SMTP.XServer (Smail4.1.19.1 #20) id m0wBzN7-009vdR; Wednesday, April 8th, 1998 Received: from mail.apache.net(really [164/187]) by relay.comanche.com Monday, April 6th, 1998 Received: from 32776.21445(really [80110/80111]) by relay.denmark.nl Saturday, April 4th, 1998 Received: from local.nethost.org(really [24553/24554]) by relay.SS621.net Friday, April 3rd, 1998 Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Thursday, April 9th, 1998 Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Authenticated sender is <88l7l7@msn.com> Subject: 4-6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! 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We filter against all universal remove lists. -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 10 15:25:12 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13987 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:25:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA29601 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:29:24 -0500 Received: from www10.w3.org (www10.w3.org [18.23.0.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id PAA29561 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:29:18 -0500 From: Admin8@mauimail.com Received: from ROSE.IPM.AC.IR (vax.ipm.ac.ir [194.225.70.70]) by www10.w3.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28627 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804102021.QAA28627@www10.w3.org> X-Authentication-Warning: www10.w3.org: Host vax.ipm.ac.ir [194.225.70.70] claimed to be ROSE.IPM.AC.IR Received: from rose.ipm.ac.ir (206-18-112-91.la.inreach.net) by ROSE.IPM.AC.IR (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:13:06 +0330 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 12:40:02 EST To: Friend@public.com Subject: Registered mail Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List You just stumbled upon something big ! Pt or FT ! No competition !No selling ! Not MLM ! $1 - $5,000 per week from home, within 30 days ! Daily conference calls ! Complete training and support ! Leads available ! Dear Friend, If your tired of the hype , then read on. Everyone wants more and we have the system that can get it. Over 20,000 doctors, lawyers, CPA's and business people, last year alone, started using our system to create wealth in their spare time. Many are making in excess of $50,000 per month. Speak to them yourself ! " I'm a chiropractor in Hawaii and use this system in my spare time to consistently make over $4,000 per week ! " Michael F. Makawao, HI " I'm a single nurse and mom with 5 kids, have been using the system for 18 months, and last year alone, earned $400,000 ! " Melissa F., Parkersburg, IA " I was a practicing priest for many years, retired and started using this system. Last week I earned $33,000 and bought my wife a new van - CASH " Jim P., Port Angeles, WA These people were taught how to turn a one time investment into big money ! Is the timing right for you ? Find out on our discovery call. Risk free and pressure free ! We guarantee it ! 888 354 3187 To have your name removed form our list, send an email with remove in subject to admin98@postmaster.co.uk. We filter against all universal remove lists. -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 00:10:00 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06097 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:10:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id AAA05398 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:16:57 -0500 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id AAA05343 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:16:51 -0500 Received: by mercury.colossus.net id WAA08743 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:08:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199804110508.WAA08743@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Mozilla To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu (PNG List) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:08:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I just downloaded the latest (4/08) Mozilla source, and pnglib is marked as removed "for legal reasons". Did they talk to any of us, and if so, what the hell's up with that? -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 05:26:11 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA16842 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:26:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id FAA13710 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:33:00 -0500 Received: from grok.netgsi.com (grok.netgsi.com [192.55.203.19]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id FAA13626 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:32:51 -0500 Received: by NetGSI.com (8.8.7/-A/UX-AMR-1.0) id GAA21382; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:24:37 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980411102113.00caa75c@netgsi.com> X-Sender: glennrp@netgsi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:21:13 -0400 To: PNG List From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Subject: Re: Mozilla Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List At 10:08 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >I just downloaded the latest (4/08) Mozilla source, and pnglib >is marked as removed "for legal reasons". Did they talk to >any of us, and if so, what the hell's up with that? They may have attempted to contact group42 and couldn't find them. They haven't written to the present copyright holder (me). Guy, Andreas, have you heard anything? Glenn -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 07:24:21 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA20701 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:24:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA27288 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:30:09 -0500 Received: from grok.netgsi.com (grok.netgsi.com [192.55.203.19]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id HAA27247 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:30:04 -0500 Received: by NetGSI.com (8.8.7/-A/UX-AMR-1.0) id IAA23528; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:21:50 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980411121825.0074fb4c@netgsi.com> X-Sender: glennrp@netgsi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:18:25 -0400 To: PNG List From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Subject: Re: Mozilla Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List At 10:08 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >I just downloaded the latest (4/08) Mozilla source, and pnglib >is marked as removed "for legal reasons". OK, I've downloaded it too (the UNIX version). Libpng was removed from ns/lib/libcnv, but libpng-0.95 (minus the makefiles, which have been replaced with a Netscape Makefile and makefile.win) is still contained in ns/modules/libimg/png Glenn -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 08:55:27 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23684 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:55:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA25589 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:02:35 -0500 Received: from shell.wco.com (shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id JAA25545 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:02:30 -0500 Received: (from png@localhost) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) id GAA23919; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804111354.GAA23919@shell.wco.com> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Mozilla From: Greg Roelofs Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > I just downloaded the latest (4/08) Mozilla source, and pnglib > is marked as removed "for legal reasons". Did they talk to > any of us, and if so, what the hell's up with that? I've been talking with several of the Netscape folks (some responses cc'd to png-implement), but nothing about legalities was ever mentioned. In any case, if it's just the libcnv version that was removed, no big deal--that was 0.89 and was never activated, if I recall correctly what Mike Judge said. Btw, on Thursday I signed a contract with O'Reilly to do a book entitled (by them), ``PNG: The Definitive Guide.'' Aside from this being kind of cool and fun and all, it means my Mozilla time is suddenly severely re- stricted (sigh). If anyone else is actively hacking the code, let me know and I'll try to summarize on png-implement what I found out so far. It doesn't look so good, btw. :-( Greg -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 12:27:25 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00755 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:27:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA08202 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:33:03 -0500 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [206.125.69.81]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA08153 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:32:57 -0500 Received: from vader.boutell.com by boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28558 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:31:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (boutell@localhost) by vader.boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11193 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:32:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Boutell To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I have heard nothing about this. I don't understand it at all. Is there an appropriate way to bring this up with them? Of course, we can post to their source-hacking newsgroups. -T Pick a newsgroup and rescue it: http://www.boutell.com/boutell/usenet.html -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 12:30:52 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00889 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:30:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA11251 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:38:10 -0500 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [206.125.69.81]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA11200 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:38:05 -0500 Received: from vader.boutell.com by boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28575 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:35:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (boutell@localhost) by vader.boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11214 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:35:50 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:35:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Boutell To: PNG List Subject: Re: Mozilla In-Reply-To: <199804111354.GAA23919@shell.wco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Greg Roelofs wrote: > Btw, on Thursday I signed a contract with O'Reilly to do a book entitled > (by them), ``PNG: The Definitive Guide.'' Congratulations! This is wonderful! > Aside from this being kind of > cool and fun and all, it means my Mozilla time is suddenly severely re- > stricted (sigh). If anyone else is actively hacking the code, let me know > and I'll try to summarize on png-implement what I found out so far. It > doesn't look so good, btw. :-( Why, is alpha support turning out to be a nightmare? -T -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 14:19:58 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04546 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:19:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id OAA18211 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:26:48 -0500 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id OAA18167 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:26:42 -0500 Received: by mercury.colossus.net id MAA03150 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:18:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199804111918.MAA03150@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Boutell" at Apr 11, 98 10:32:24 am Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > I have heard nothing about this. I don't understand it at all. > Is there an appropriate way to bring this up with them? Of course, > we can post to their source-hacking newsgroups. I already did; the reply I've gotten so far is that PNG reading code is still there, but they removed the PNG writing code and a duplicate copy of zlib (which sound like technical reasons to me, not legal ones). I'll post more here as it comes. -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 14:28:05 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04806 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:28:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id OAA20419 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:30:32 -0500 Received: from shell.wco.com (shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id OAA20376 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:30:27 -0500 Received: (from png@localhost) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) id MAA01777 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804111922.MAA01777@shell.wco.com> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Mozilla From: Greg Roelofs Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Thomas Boutell wrote: [book deal] > Congratulations! This is wonderful! Thanks, but...now I have to write it. :-) > Why, is alpha support turning out to be a nightmare? Somewhat. In many respects the code is pretty clean, but I'm still trying to figure out why they separate image data and mask data into two completely separate structures, with no obvious connection between them once UpdatePixmap (xfe function) gets done with them. The code also seems to traverse not only ImageLib and the X front end (and Mac and Win, presumably) but also the layout module. I *still* haven't figured out whether the actual compositing is done in Netscape's code or in native front-end calls. (To be sure, I haven't had a huge amount of time to look, either, but I have bounced back and forth between quite a few source files already...) Greg -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 15:13:02 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06334 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:13:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA20142 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:19:44 -0500 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id PAA20099 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:19:39 -0500 Received: by mercury.colossus.net id NAA13002 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:11:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199804112011.NAA13002@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Book To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:10:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: <199804111354.GAA23919@shell.wco.com> from "Greg Roelofs" at Apr 11, 98 06:54:15 am Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Btw, on Thursday I signed a contract with O'Reilly to do a book entitled > (by them), ``PNG: The Definitive Guide.'' Aside from this being kind of > cool and fun and all, it means my Mozilla time is suddenly severely re- > stricted (sigh). If anyone else is actively hacking the code, let me know > and I'll try to summarize on png-implement what I found out so far. It > doesn't look so good, btw. :-( I've been following Mozilla and hacking a bit myself, and I'm sure others here will as well. Let me know if you need a tech editor for the book, too. I'm working for a magazine now, so I've been doing a lot of that lately. -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 16:46:49 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09461 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:46:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id QAA17415 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:53:52 -0500 Received: from shell.wco.com (shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id QAA17376 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:53:47 -0500 Received: (from png@localhost) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) id OAA01838 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804112145.OAA01838@shell.wco.com> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source From: Greg Roelofs Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Lee wrote: > I already did; the reply I've gotten so far is that PNG reading > code is still there, but they removed the PNG writing code and > a duplicate copy of zlib (which sound like technical reasons to > me, not legal ones). I'll post more here as it comes. Check earlier (that is, previous thread): >>> Subject: Re: "Remove for legal reasons"? (Was: Re: new source) >>> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:40:07 -0700 >>> From: John Giannandrea >>> Organization: Another Netscape Collabra Server User >>> Newsgroups: netscape.public.mozilla.license, netscape.public.mozilla.general >>> References: 1 , 2 >>> >>> Jonathan Lennox wrote: >>> > According to this changelog, all the zlib and png stuff in lib/libcnv got >>> > removed "for legal reasons". Why was this? >>> >>> [cross-posted because there are two audiences for the answer] >>> >>> There were three reasons for those deletions. >>> One was that the zlib library is already elsewhere in the tree >>> in ns/modules/zlib. The other was that the PNG writing code was >>> not well factored and wasn't actually being called by composer. >>> And the third reason is that it was the only place in the code >>> actually calling deflate and doing compression rather than >>> decompression. The legal situation with that is described in >>> the LEGAL file. >>> >>> -jg It appears that Stac has gotten uppity, or else Netscape is extremely paranoid and somewhat clueless in the legal department. I trust Jean-loup can speak to this, and maybe sic some FSF lawyers on the Netscape/Stac lawyers? >> C) Stac, Inc., and its licensing agent Hi/fn, own several patents which >> disclose data compression methods implementing an LZS compression >> algorithm, including U.S. Patent Nos. 4,701,745 and 5,016, 009 ("the >> Stac Patents"). The Netscape Communicator code does not perform >> compression. If you modify the Netscape source code to perform >> compression, please take notice of the Stac Patents. Greg -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 11 16:53:38 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09703 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:53:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA21650 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:01:02 -0500 Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id RAA21613 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:58 -0500 Received: from infinet.com (a026.tc-1.mid.infinet.com [209.57.151.26]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20541 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352FE5F6.A264124F@infinet.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:51:51 -0400 From: Guy Schalnat X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PNG List Subject: Re: Mozilla References: <1.5.4.32.19980411102113.00caa75c@netgsi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Glenn Randers-Pehrson wrote: > At 10:08 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: > >I just downloaded the latest (4/08) Mozilla source, and pnglib > >is marked as removed "for legal reasons". Did they talk to > >any of us, and if so, what the hell's up with that? > > They may have attempted to contact group42 and couldn't find > them. They haven't written to the present copyright holder (me). > Guy, Andreas, have you heard anything? Nope. Not a thing. Not even from the old Group 42 people (although I haven't asked them, but I can't imagine any of them would care). I assume that the remark is wrong (perhaps something about writing gifs that was mismarked?). -Guy -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sun Apr 12 10:46:11 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA15793 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:46:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA11670 for png-list-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:52:55 -0500 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [206.125.69.81]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id KAA11608 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:52:49 -0500 Received: from vader.boutell.com by boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01183 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:51:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (boutell@localhost) by vader.boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16867 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:51:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:51:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Boutell To: PNG List Subject: Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source In-Reply-To: <199804111918.MAA03150@mercury.colossus.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote: > I already did; the reply I've gotten so far is that PNG reading > code is still there, but they removed the PNG writing code and > a duplicate copy of zlib (which sound like technical reasons to > me, not legal ones). I'll post more here as it comes. Oh! I think I get it, then: they removed the compression code because, while they don't necessarily think anyone has a really strong patent claim that's relevant, they'd rather risk it only in one direction instead of two. For instance, many people think that the Unisys LZW patent doesn't cover decompression as convincingly as compression. This isn't exactly a problem -- a two-way zlib is needed for Java 1.1 and up, but perhaps they expect that to become the domain of a separate beastie like Sun's Java Activator. -T -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 13 16:03:57 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14599 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:03:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA20069 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:59:11 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id PAA20011 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:59:05 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14104 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:50:36 -0400 (EDT) To: PNG List Subject: Stac vs. PNG (Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source) In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) <199804132028.NAA16845@mercury.colossus.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:50:36 -0400 Message-ID: <14102.892500636@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Specifically (and this is a separate issue that the group may > want to combat), Stac claims that their patent covers deflate, Yikes! If this holds up, the entire PNG project comes down around our ears. We *have to* fight it. regards, tom lane -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 13 16:07:04 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14720 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id QAA27521 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:12:46 -0500 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [206.125.69.81]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id QAA27475 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:12:39 -0500 Received: from vader.boutell.com by boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08338 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:10:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (boutell@localhost) by vader.boutell.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02659 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:10:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Boutell To: PNG List Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG (Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source) In-Reply-To: <14102.892500636@sss.pgh.pa.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Tom Lane wrote: > > Specifically (and this is a separate issue that the group may > > want to combat), Stac claims that their patent covers deflate, > > Yikes! > > If this holds up, the entire PNG project comes down around our ears. > > We *have to* fight it. > > regards, tom lane I'd imagine the winzip and pkware folks won't be pleased either. -T -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 13 17:02:22 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA16810 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:02:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA08065 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:37:38 -0500 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id PAA07982 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:37:29 -0500 Received: from mercury.colossus.net (mercury.colossus.net [207.33.41.84]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00100 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:29:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mercury.colossus.net id NAA16845 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:28:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199804132028.NAA16845@mercury.colossus.net> Subject: Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Boutell" at Apr 12, 98 08:51:57 am Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Oh! I think I get it, then: they removed the compression code > because, while they don't necessarily think anyone has a really > strong patent claim that's relevant, they'd rather risk it only > in one direction instead of two. For instance, many people think > that the Unisys LZW patent doesn't cover decompression as > convincingly as compression. > > This isn't exactly a problem -- a two-way zlib is needed for > Java 1.1 and up, but perhaps they expect that to become the > domain of a separate beastie like Sun's Java Activator. Specifically (and this is a separate issue that the group may want to combat), Stac claims that their patent covers deflate, and Netscape doesn't feel like fighting them. Sounds like a really bad press release might be in order ("Stac Tries to Usurp Internet Standard" or something). -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 13 18:04:44 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA19023 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:04:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA04090 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:06:19 -0500 Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.97]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA04049 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:06:11 -0500 Received: from stationary.eng.umd.edu ((IDENT rsrodger)@stationary.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.140]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id SAA19072 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (rsrodger@localhost) by stationary.eng.umd.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05781 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:57:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: stationary.eng.umd.edu: rsrodger owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:57:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Stephen Rodgers X-Sender: rsrodger@stationary.eng.umd.edu To: PNG List Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG (Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source) In-Reply-To: <14102.892500636@sss.pgh.pa.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Yikes! > > If this holds up, the entire PNG project comes down around our ears. > > We *have to* fight it. Fight poor little innocent Stac? Then we'd be as bad as evil old MS. RSR -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 18 23:23:08 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27077 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:23:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id XAA06055 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:27:52 -0500 Received: from www10.w3.org (www10.w3.org [18.23.0.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id XAA06050 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:27:47 -0500 Received: from inaweb.inaweb.co.id (inaweb.inaweb.co.id [202.155.15.132]) by www10.w3.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA19148 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([206.18.112.48]) by inaweb.inaweb.co.id (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 224; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:05:51 +0000 From: l9nn79n To: Received: from SMTP.XServer (Smail4.1.19.1 #20) id m0wBzN7-009vdR; Thursday, April 30th, 1998 Received: from mail.apache.net(really [164/187]) by relay.comanche.com Tuesday, April 28th, 1998 Received: from 32776.21445(really [80110/80111]) by relay.denmark.nl Sunday, April 26th, 1998 Received: from local.nethost.org(really [24553/24554]) by relay.SS621.net Saturday, April 25th, 1998 Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Friday, May 1st, 1998 Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Authenticated sender is Subject: April Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! 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It uses libpng and decodes the complete set of test images in pngsuite. As far as I can tell (judging by the pngsuite documentation), it displays every image in pngsuite correctly. However, if anyone who knows what the images in pngsuite are supposed to look like has the time to check paintlib for compliance, I'd be very grateful. Cheers, Uli -- Ulrich von Zadow Author of paintlib: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uzadow/paintlib -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 24 10:07:41 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05330 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:07:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA19928 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:13:09 -0500 Received: from gntcompaq.gintic.ntu.ac.sg (gntcompaq.gintic.gov.sg [155.69.29.28]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id KAA19923 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:13:06 -0500 Received: by gntcompaq.gintic.ntu.ac.sg with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BD6FD5.02F99470@gntcompaq.gintic.ntu.ac.sg>; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:02:10 +0800 Message-ID: From: Willem van Schaik To: "'PNG List'" Subject: RE: PNG support in paintlib Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:02:09 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Ulrich wrote: > >Due to the initiative of Gilles Vollant (info@winimage.com), my C++ image >file decompression library paintlib finally supports PNG. It uses libpng >and decodes the complete set of test images in pngsuite. > >As far as I can tell (judging by the pngsuite documentation), it displays >every image in pngsuite correctly. However, if anyone who knows what the >images in pngsuite are supposed to look like has the time to check paintlib >for compliance, I'd be very grateful. >If you check PngSuite on my web-site, you will find both PNG images >as well as the GIF images how they should look like. You will find >them at http://www.schaik.com/pngsuite/. > >Willem > > -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 24 15:40:05 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12848 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:40:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA23623 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:40:32 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id PAA23617 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:40:25 -0500 Received: from cs.tu-berlin.de (anonymous219.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.219]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA25403 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:25:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804242025.WAA25403@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:25:03 +0200 From: Ulrich von Zadow To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: RE: PNG support in paintlib X-Mailer: Ulrich von Zadow's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >If you check PngSuite on my web-site, you will find both PNG images >as well as the GIF images how they should look like. You will find >them at http://www.schaik.com/pngsuite/. Thanks. I missed the gifs on my first visit. Cheers, Uli -- Ulrich von Zadow Author of paintlib: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uzadow/paintlib -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 24 18:35:58 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23547 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:35:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA25580 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:41:18 -0500 Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA25572 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:41:14 -0500 Received: from batman (ip251.seattle10.wa.pub-ip.psi.net [38.28.41.251]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28975 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard Oesterreicher" To: "PNG List" Subject: RE: Stac vs. PNG Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:30:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bd6fd8$f337c760$020a0a64@batman.rdesign> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <14102.892500636@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > From: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu > Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 1:51 PM > Subject: Stac vs. PNG (Re: Removal of PNG from Mozilla source) > > > Specifically (and this is a separate issue that the group may > > want to combat), Stac claims that their patent covers deflate, > > Yikes! > If this holds up, the entire PNG project comes down around our ears. > We *have to* fight it. > > regards, tom lane I remember this message showing up on this list a couple weeks ago. I must have missed the conclusion of this thread, and it seems like a huge topic to just let slide. Is there any substantiation to Stac's claims? Thanks, Richard RO DESIGN - Progress Through Creative Innovation! Email: ROester@rodesign.com URL: http://www.rodesign.com -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 24 19:27:17 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24461 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:27:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id TAA25937 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:35:14 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id TAA25932 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:35:10 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10932 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:25:33 -0400 (EDT) To: PNG List Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:30:22 -0700 <000101bd6fd8$f337c760$020a0a64@batman.rdesign> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:25:33 -0400 Message-ID: <10930.893463933@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List "Richard Oesterreicher" writes: > I must have missed the conclusion of this thread, and it seems like a huge > topic to just let slide. There has been some quiet off-list discussion, but no decisions taken about what to do, if anything. Jean-loup, at least, seems to feel that we should just lay low unless we see some evidence of an organized campaign on Stac's part. As far as we can tell right now, this affair could have been just a misinterpretation by Netscape of whatever Stac said. > Is there any substantiation to Stac's claims? We have only a second-hand report that they're claiming anything at all. regards, tom lane -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 25 17:36:15 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21318 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:36:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA04249 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:44:13 -0500 Received: from buffy.graphicswiz.com (buffy.graphicswiz.com [207.239.128.194]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id RAA04244 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:44:10 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by buffy.graphicswiz.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id QAA04495 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:33:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: buffy.graphicswiz.com: nobody set sender to using -f Received: from sally.graphicswiz.com(10.10.10.3) by buffy.graphicswiz.com via smap (V2.0) id xma004486; Sat, 25 Apr 98 16:32:34 -0500 Received: from cpic (cpic.graphicswiz.com [10.10.10.10]) by sally.graphicswiz.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04827 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:32:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:32:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199804252232.RAA04827@sally.graphicswiz.com> X-Sender: pschmidt@mail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: PNG List From: pschmidt@photodex.com (Paul Schmidt) Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Tom Lane said: >> Is there any substantiation to Stac's claims? > >We have only a second-hand report that they're claiming anything at all. FWIW: I did a search of the internet on both excite and altavista and was NOT able to find ANY information that would lead me to believe that anyone from Stac (or anywhere else) has even mentioned "deflate" in the same context as Stac on a newsgroup or web page. I believe that if Stac or any other reputable organization had made any statements about this, it would have been blasted all over the place. The fact that I was unable to find a single reference to it (except on this mailing list) leads me to believe that it's unfounded. Where did this information originate? Best Regards, Paul Schmidt ---------------------------------------------------------- Photodex Corporation Service GO/Keyword E-Mail 1106 Clayton Lane #200W AOL: Photodex Photodex Austin, TX 78723 CIS: Photodex 74774,3635 (512)406-3020 Voice (512)452-6825 Fax i'net: pschmidt@photodex.com "I play with dots... WWW: http://www.photodex.com ...lots of dots." FTP: ftp.photodex.com -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 25 17:54:33 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21376 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:54:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA04364 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:02:59 -0500 Received: from grok.netgsi.com (grok.netgsi.com [192.55.203.19]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA04359 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:02:57 -0500 Received: by NetGSI.com (8.8.7/-A/UX-AMR-1.0) id SAA25798; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:53:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980425224955.006ed644@netgsi.com> X-Sender: glennrp@netgsi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:49:55 -0400 To: PNG List From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List At 05:32 PM 4/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Tom Lane said: >>We have only a second-hand report that they're claiming anything at all. > >Where did this information originate? When we questioned Netscape about their removing PNG write capability from their public Mozilla release "for legal reasons" the response was that their legal department had received a communication from STAC. We weren't told exactly what the communication contained. We haven't received any direct communication from the Netscape legal department, so as Tom says, it's second hand. >From here, we can't tell what STAC is claiming, if anything, or if Netscape has properly interpreted what STAC said. Glenn -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 28 11:23:28 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03096 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:23:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA05358 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:18:35 -0500 Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk (mercury.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id LAA05353 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:18:27 -0500 Received: from elm.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:08:07 +0100 Received: from localhost by elm.ukc.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/UKC-2.14) id RAA17411; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:08:05 +0100 To: PNG List X-URI: http://www.cs.ukc.ac.uk/people/staff/djb1/ Subject: Re: Stac vs. PNG Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:08:05 +0100 Message-ID: <17409.893779685@elm.ukc.ac.uk> From: Dave Beckett Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I did a bit of research about Stac and compression and found the documents below (edited, read the full ones yourself). Hi/fn(TM) Offers Free Reference Design Kit for 7711 Encryption Processor(TM) http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980331/ca_hi_fn_f_1.html ****************************************************************** ... Algorithms run much faster on the 7711 processor than they do in software. For example, the 7711 performs Triple-DES encrypt/decrypt operations eight times faster than a 155-MHz workstation, according to an RSA Data Security benchmark. The 7711 encryption processor combines seven algorithm engines on a single chip -- Lempel-Ziv-Stac (LZS(R)) and Microsoft Point-to-Point Compression (MPPC); DES, Triple-DES and RC4 encryption; and SHA and MD5 authentication. The 7711 supports the IPSec, SSL/TLS, PPP and PPTP networking protocols. ... Hi/fn is a majority owned subsidiary of Stac(R), Inc. (Nasdaq: STAC - news). Hi/fn's Web site is http://www.hifn.com. ... NOTE: Hi/fn and Encryption Processor are trademarks and LZS is a registered trademark of Hi/fn, Inc. Stac is a registered trademark of Stac, Inc. ... ****************************************************************** Hi/fn Home Page http://www.hifn.com/ Hi/fn News Page http://www.hifn.com/news/index.htm ****************************************************************** ... Netscape to offer Compression, Encryption Netscape plans to offer Web users a faster, better way to send secure data. In a front-page Infoworld story by Stephen Lawson, the company's plans to send compressed encrypted data were applauded by both analysts and users. By offering authentication, compression, and encryption at the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL), Netscape will bring most of the benefits of virtual private networks to the World Wide Web, Infoworld said. Netscape will license Hi/fn's LZS compression software. See the entire InfoWorld story ****************************************************************** The InfoWorld story mentioned is: http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayArchives.pl?970721.ecompress.htm ****************************************************************** ... Officials at Hi/fn said Netscape will license Hi/fn's Lempel-Ziv-Stac (LZS) compression technology for use in its implementation of Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). ... ****************************************************************** This is not directly related to do with PNG but it could be that Netscape's LZS license impacts on the use of other LZ-based compression stuff such as that in zlib and hence PNG. Dave -- Send the message body "help" to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 30 22:34:06 1998 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17382 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:34:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id WAA14234 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:43:09 -0500 Received: from mailserver.ecoline.se ([193.14.227.158]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id WAA14195; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:42:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:42:19 -0500 Received: from default ([153.37.58.241]) by mailserver.ecoline.se (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 67-121033) with SMTP id AAS190; Fri, 1 May 1998 05:46:25 +0200 From: 8434qs <8434qs@att.net> To: Received: from SMTP.XServer (Smail4.1.19.1 #20) id m0wBzN7-009vdR; Wednesday, May 20th, 1998 Received: from mail.apache.net(really [164/187]) by relay.comanche.com Monday, May 18th, 1998 Received: from 32776.21445(really [80110/80111]) by relay.denmark.nl Saturday, May 16th, 1998 Received: from local.nethost.org(really [24553/24554]) by relay.SS621.net Friday, May 15th, 1998 Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Thursday, May 21st, 1998 Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Authenticated sender is <8434qs@att.net> Subject: 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! 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Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called "spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting, the spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!! A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the location of a search engine on your browser then search for the market you wish to reach...it's that easy! For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors in New York all you would do is: 1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in the words doctor(s) and New York 2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the http://... for instance it might look like http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York 3) Press the START button THAT's IT!!! The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses you want. 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